Daniel Herbster reporting
Exodus International is the largest network of former homosexuals in the world and assists local ministries around the world in helping people overcome same-sex attraction and the homosexual lifestyle through a relationship with Christ. They also use their unique expertise to speak out on important cultural and societal issues. I’ve had the opportunity to work with members of Exodus on a number of occasions so it’s great to be able to interview my friend Randy Thomas who is Vice President of Exodus. The following is my interview with Randy.
DH: Randy, how long has Exodus been in existence and how did it get started?
RT: In 1976, sixty-two ministry leaders met in California to talk about their efforts to help those dealing with unwanted same-sex attraction and how they, as independent ministries, could network to help one another in this effort. The vision and name for Exodus was born out of obvious parallels that could be drawn from the Children of Israel leaving Egypt and entering the Promise Land. These visionaries had the accurate view that being “gay” should not be the only option for those with same sex attractions. They knew that our “Promise Land” was the knowledge of and relationship with Jesus Christ. They knew that there was so much more to life than what a gay ideology was offering and so they developed the network we now know as Exodus. Thirty-three years later our network has over 200 member agencies across North America who reach thousands of people seeking help. We are also affiliated with other ministries around the world who offer this perspective on homosexuality to a world hungering for positive alternatives.
Sixty-two people cast a vision that has now helped millions of people and educated millions more about biblical sexuality.
DH: One of the tenants of our modern, politically correct culture holds that sexual orientation is inherent and unchangeable but “gender identity” is unfixed and can change. Do you think this is true, and how does Exodus’s unique perspective relate to this issue?
RT: Recently I wrote on my personal blog a post called “The Transgender Double Standard.” In it I shared, ‘It’s always astounded me how willing some in the gay activist community are to celebrate someone surgically altering their body to “become” who they perceive to be internally. Yet when I determine I want to reorient my sexual orientation, which does not require drastic surgery or body altering drugs, according to those same activists, I am the one doing damage to myself and others by simply holding to a particular worldview that brings me contentment and sexual reorientation. The transgendered are applauded for radically altering their bodies while I am scolded for holding the belief that I would be happier living out who I truly am regardless of my past life as a gay identified man. It¹s ok for someone to ignore what they were obviously born as, but for people like me - we are told being “gay” is genetic and should be embraced because we have no other option.’
This is a terrible conundrum for militant gay activism because their own moral relativism is being exposed. We were all created with free will. We all have the ability to define right and wrong for ourselves. The issue with moral relativism is that eventually it will prove out to be hypocritical because it is self based moral judgments instead of God¹s creative intent which is unchanging. Sixteen years ago I decided that maybe God’s intent for my sexuality and identity just might be beyond my own seemingly logical conclusions. I started to question everything in life and attempting to live out my identity and sexuality in accordance with my faith. My identity has completely changed in that I am not a “gay” man anymore. I am a Christian. I will hopefully be known as a man of God. My sexual orientation has shifted a great deal as a byproduct of my pursuing purity and holiness.
Notice I said shifted. I am not above temptation and if temptation happens, I know why and what to do about it. Regardless, homosexuality does not have the power to determine who I am or how I steward my sexuality.
DH: Would you mind telling us about your background and how you came to work at Exodus?
RT: Sixteen years ago, I was living life as a gay man. All of my relational, political, and social needs were defined by a worldview that fed my appetites and met my needs, albeit just temporarily. I didn't particularly care for Christians and having grown up in a fatherless home in an abusive environment, I remembered having same-sex attractions at an early age. I followed those attractions and I thought being "gay" was my only option. I had moved out of the closet only to find myself living in a pigeonhole. In the early 1990s, a friend of mine asked me, "Randy, do you take a bath so you can take a shower?" I shook my head and laughed at her silly metaphor and said no. She, undaunted and committed to the metaphor, said, "Well the Lord doesn't want you to figure it all out before you come to Him ... just come to Him. Everything else will be sorted out in due time." I came to Christ because He just made sense to me. I asked the Lord into my heart, and I did have one of those experiences where I felt His presence in the room. Over time, God began to deal with the broken places in my heart and that included leading me out of a life dominated by same-sex attraction.
DH: How can our readers find out more about Exodus, and what are some ways they could help support what you do?
RT: People can visit us online at http://www.exodus.to/ or give us a call toll free at (888) 264-0877. Our website is full of helpful information for men and women dealing with same sex attraction. We also have resources for spouses, family, friends, youth and churches available through the website and on http://www.exodusbooks.org/. The best way someone can support us right now is in prayer. We mean that sincerely. People can also look up their local area Member Ministry, Exodus Member Churches and Professional Counselors and pray for them. Of course, like all Christian workers, our network needs volunteers and financial support. We would be honored to work with others who have a heart to see a redemptive approach to homosexuality gain further exposure in our culture.
DH: Is there any advice you would give to Christians when attempting to reach out to those struggling with or living in a lifestyle of homosexuality, or to those seeking to oppose the radical homosexual agenda in a loving way?
RT: This question is exactly why Alan Chambers and the leadership team here at Exodus wrote the book God¹s Grace and the Homosexual Next Door. It was written for Christians who have a heart to befriend and love their gay identified neighbors and family members. I often share that the great commission is not the great “gay” mission. The gospel is paramount.
Opposing gay political ideology needs to happen, but not at the expense of a gracious and redemptive attitude toward those who identify as gay or lesbian. Indeed, if you do not have the love of Christ in your heart toward the gay community, you do not have the moral authority to enter into public policy battles.
DH: Activists with the Human Rights Council recently met in Washington, DC to lobby for legislation that would make it a crime to fire or refuse to hire someone based on their “perceived gender or sexual orientation” (ENDA) and for various legislation which would offer marriage benefits to same-sex couples. What is Exodus’s perspective on ENDA and these other so-called “pro-family” or “pro-equality” measures?
RT: Exodus has been on record as opposing the redefinition of marriage, the use of hate crimes legislation to suppress freedom of conscience and religious liberty as well as ENDA, the corporate version of hate crimes. ENDA is another example of the state forcing a state sanctioned sexual morality at the expense of religious liberty.
Exodus has only been involved in these public policy battles for the past five years and while we have very strong beliefs, I think it is a mistake for Christians to believe that Joe Solomnese, a gay identified man in charge of the HRC (largest gay lobby in the world) wants to proverbially burn Christians at the stake. While he has been dismissive of my life and testimony, I choose not to be dismissive of his because I once believed as he does. My only desire was to live in a homosexual relationship.
Regardless of morality, emotional and relational investments run deep. As a gay man I paid taxes and was an American citizen. I believed in the HRC and yet I had no desire to hurt or deny Christians their civil liberties. I think most gay identified people don’t either. There are some who want Christians to be punished for what they perceive as bigotry and may use this legislation to do so. That is why these policies must be opposed. At the same time, I would remind Christians to not fear. We do not ignore public policy threats and do our best to serve our “opponents” with dignity and grace.
Humans like to actually try to assert reason, for the most part. We should take a look at what the HRC is saying and doing. Then we should oppose outright falsehood, address common concerns and all the while assert civility and reasonableness. While many militant gay activists are irreconcilable, the other 98% will recognize true civility and will respect you even if they strongly disagree.
DH: I understand that you are an avid blogger. Where could our readers find your personal web log? What do you think are some of the benefits of blogging, and how do you think it could be useful in seeking to affect the culture in the positive way?
RT: I think blogging is truly the “New Media.” It’s a fantastic and creative way for people to give voice to their cares, concerns... Joys and celebrations ... Blogs are amazing and are simply another way that Freedom is truly expressed at the grass roots. Also, just like the grass roots, when blogs act in tandem it can affect powerful change. It was the blogosphere that first broke the news of the fake memo that cost Dan Rather his job and exposed liberal bias at CBS. All of the major Presidential candidates are raising millions and millions of dollars and armies of volunteers through blogs. Blogs are an amazing manifestation of a public disillusioned with the “old” or Mainstream Media.
DH: I understand that protecting the institution of marriage is a major concern of Exodus. Why is this such an important issue, and what are some ways marriage can be protected?
RT: We believe that marriage is a unique institution created by God for the benefit of all mankind. Male and female both reflect God perfectly and uniquely in their own right as distinct genders. When a man and woman come together as one in the Holy covenant of marriage, they bear the Image of God as “one” in a way that neither can do alone. Often this results in the birth of children who then bear the image of both parents and yet are complete individuals in their own right. To purposefully remove Mom or Dad or intentionally reproduce in order to divorce a child from their biological parents is a disservice to an institution that has been the foundation of our great society and other great societies throughout time.
This is not just a problem within the homosexual community; it is also a much bigger problem within the heterosexual community when the institution of marriage is abused by lightly entering into it, dismissing it altogether, or fleeing toward divorce instead of taking responsibility to uphold their wedding vows.
I think we are shown to be hypocrites when we denounce Rosie¹s gay marriage and say nothing about Christian couples divorcing at embarrassing rates for embarrassing reasons. Only being against something doesn¹t work. We must show the beauty and mystery of biblical marriage. It is an amazing gift to be treasured and people do not understand how awesome it was created and intended to be.
DH: What stand does Exodus take on hate crimes legislation? Do you think these types of measures would strengthen or weaken equality under the law?
RT: I’ve always believed that someone leaving a church should have just as much legal protection as someone leaving a gay bar. Laws such as these masquerade under the guise of equality, but in fact open the door to ideological supremacy.
DH: Randy, thanks for your time.
RT: Thank you!